1 00:00:01,900 --> 00:00:04,000 [Phil] Erasmus, if you do still live here, 2 00:00:05,066 --> 00:00:06,834 you can try and prove it to me. 3 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:11,667 -[heavy thud] -[Heather screams] 4 00:00:11,834 --> 00:00:14,967 [Josh] On this episode of "Expedition X" -- 5 00:00:15,133 --> 00:00:17,500 -Oh, my gosh, look. -[Heather] Wow! 6 00:00:17,667 --> 00:00:19,567 I see why they call it a cave castle. 7 00:00:19,567 --> 00:00:23,066 [Josh] My team travels to Predjama Castle in Slovenia, 8 00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:28,066 once home to one of the most evil men of the Middle Ages. 9 00:00:28,233 --> 00:00:30,567 He was robbing people from this area. 10 00:00:30,567 --> 00:00:34,467 He took people to slavery and burned houses down. 11 00:00:35,367 --> 00:00:38,567 [Josh] The blood-soaked building connects with a secret network 12 00:00:38,567 --> 00:00:40,100 of sinister caves... 13 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:42,100 [Karin] I saw a shadowy figure. 14 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:45,467 I know it wasn't human by how it was moving. 15 00:00:45,633 --> 00:00:47,467 [Phil] Oh, [bleep]! 16 00:00:47,633 --> 00:00:51,767 [Josh] ...where dark rituals were once held to appease violent gods. 17 00:00:51,934 --> 00:00:53,567 What did you hope to gain? 18 00:00:53,734 --> 00:00:55,000 Power. 19 00:00:56,700 --> 00:00:58,567 -[Phil grunts] -[Heather] Phil! 20 00:00:58,567 --> 00:01:01,767 [Josh] Will Heather and Phil survive their journey to the black 21 00:01:01,767 --> 00:01:03,767 heart of the cursed castle? 22 00:01:03,934 --> 00:01:05,367 Are those rapids? 23 00:01:05,367 --> 00:01:07,100 Oh, my God, they are. 24 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:08,467 Watch it, watch it, watch it! 25 00:01:09,367 --> 00:01:11,567 [ominous music plays] 26 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:21,667 All right, well, you two are getting a bit of a reputation. 27 00:01:21,834 --> 00:01:23,667 Like, in a good way because we're getting so much evidence 28 00:01:23,834 --> 00:01:25,500 of the paranormal? -No, it's got to be in a bad way 29 00:01:25,667 --> 00:01:27,867 because we're scaring everyone from going anywhere. 30 00:01:27,867 --> 00:01:29,500 Honestly, it's kind of both. 31 00:01:29,667 --> 00:01:32,467 You're getting a reputation at being very good at dealing 32 00:01:32,467 --> 00:01:34,500 with the bad, particularly when it comes 33 00:01:34,667 --> 00:01:37,166 to horribly haunted castles. 34 00:01:37,333 --> 00:01:39,100 Ah, like Chillingham Castle in England. 35 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:40,867 Or like Chateau De Veauce in France. 36 00:01:40,867 --> 00:01:43,900 Or Houska in the Czech Republic, et cetera, et cetera. 37 00:01:44,066 --> 00:01:47,100 You guys have investigated so many castles that a place 38 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:50,667 called Predjama Castle all the way over in Slovenia, 39 00:01:50,834 --> 00:01:53,266 reached out saying they are inundated with paranormal 40 00:01:53,433 --> 00:01:55,367 activity and they want your help. 41 00:01:55,533 --> 00:01:57,467 Ooh, maybe we'll get to meet another nobleman like the guy 42 00:01:57,633 --> 00:01:59,367 that owns Chillingham Castle, Sir Humphrey. 43 00:01:59,367 --> 00:02:01,166 Well, that's where you'd be wrong, Heather. 44 00:02:01,333 --> 00:02:02,433 Dead wrong. 45 00:02:02,433 --> 00:02:05,100 For the past 500 years, there has been nothing noble 46 00:02:05,266 --> 00:02:06,200 about Predjama. 47 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,166 This is not a castle of courageous knights 48 00:02:09,333 --> 00:02:10,567 or gracious kings. 49 00:02:10,567 --> 00:02:15,000 This place was home to violent bandits, greedy lords, 50 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,100 and a whole lot of death. 51 00:02:17,266 --> 00:02:19,100 [camera clicks] 52 00:02:21,567 --> 00:02:25,667 Built into the mouth of a cave atop a 400-foot cliff, 53 00:02:25,834 --> 00:02:30,266 Predjama Castle is the largest cave castle in the world. 54 00:02:30,433 --> 00:02:33,967 Designed in the 12th century to be impregnable, Predjama is 55 00:02:34,133 --> 00:02:37,400 strategically located to control a South European 56 00:02:37,567 --> 00:02:40,166 trade route vital to the Holy Roman Empire. 57 00:02:41,767 --> 00:02:45,800 In 1274, the powerful Lueg family takes control of 58 00:02:45,967 --> 00:02:49,500 the castle and quickly gives it a terrifying reputation. 59 00:02:50,467 --> 00:02:54,266 It becomes a base for thieves and mercenaries who kidnap 60 00:02:54,266 --> 00:02:57,467 local villagers and hold them for ransom. 61 00:02:57,633 --> 00:03:01,100 Countless souls suffer and die in its lightless dungeons 62 00:03:01,266 --> 00:03:03,800 when the ransoms don't get paid. 63 00:03:03,967 --> 00:03:07,100 The most notorious of Predjama's robber barons 64 00:03:07,100 --> 00:03:09,467 is the cruel Erasmus Lueg. 65 00:03:09,467 --> 00:03:12,367 Inheriting the castle in the 1480s, he makes it 66 00:03:12,533 --> 00:03:16,600 his mission to rob the region blind, killing or enslaving 67 00:03:16,767 --> 00:03:19,000 anyone who gets in his way. 68 00:03:19,166 --> 00:03:22,100 But in 1483, he makes a critical mistake, 69 00:03:22,266 --> 00:03:24,800 killing a marshal who happens to be the cousin 70 00:03:24,967 --> 00:03:28,166 of the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick III. 71 00:03:28,333 --> 00:03:30,900 Outraged, Frederick sends troops to Predjama 72 00:03:31,066 --> 00:03:33,300 to capture Erasmus. 73 00:03:33,467 --> 00:03:36,066 Unable to breach the cave castle's defenses, 74 00:03:36,233 --> 00:03:38,867 they try to starve him out. 75 00:03:38,867 --> 00:03:41,000 The plan doesn't work. 76 00:03:41,166 --> 00:03:45,100 Erasmus lives a life of luxury while under siege. 77 00:03:45,266 --> 00:03:48,800 It turns out the castle hides a network of secret tunnels 78 00:03:48,967 --> 00:03:53,266 that allow Erasmus to smuggle in the finest supplies. 79 00:03:53,266 --> 00:03:55,767 But the good times don't last forever. 80 00:03:55,767 --> 00:03:58,867 After holding out for nearly a year, Erasmus is killed 81 00:03:58,867 --> 00:04:02,300 in his castle by a well-aimed catapult shot. 82 00:04:04,467 --> 00:04:08,266 His death ends the Lueg family reign of terror in the region, 83 00:04:08,433 --> 00:04:11,300 but their violent legacy remains. 84 00:04:11,467 --> 00:04:14,467 Today, Predjama Castle is widely regarded as one 85 00:04:14,467 --> 00:04:18,066 of the most haunted places in all of Europe. 86 00:04:18,233 --> 00:04:21,266 Visitors and guides regularly report being followed 87 00:04:21,433 --> 00:04:26,000 by phantom footsteps, having doors impossibly slammed shut, 88 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,166 and being pushed by unseen hands. 89 00:04:29,166 --> 00:04:32,367 Most disturbing of all, a looming shadow figure 90 00:04:32,367 --> 00:04:36,300 shaped like a knight is often seen stalking the castle. 91 00:04:36,467 --> 00:04:38,500 Could this be the restless spirit 92 00:04:38,667 --> 00:04:41,000 of evil Lord Erasmus himself? 93 00:04:42,066 --> 00:04:44,300 Predjama Castle witnessed centuries 94 00:04:44,467 --> 00:04:46,867 of villainy and misery. 95 00:04:47,033 --> 00:04:50,300 If these walls could talk, they'd probably scream. 96 00:04:55,667 --> 00:04:56,834 So what does everybody think? 97 00:04:56,834 --> 00:05:00,066 Well, that Erasmus guy sounds like a real piece of work. 98 00:05:00,233 --> 00:05:01,667 Oh, he's not making your Christmas card list? 99 00:05:01,667 --> 00:05:02,734 Definitely not. 100 00:05:02,734 --> 00:05:05,166 And I'm not yet ready to call this all paranormal. 101 00:05:05,333 --> 00:05:06,467 Because think about this place. 102 00:05:06,467 --> 00:05:10,500 It is a centuries-old castle built into a cave. 103 00:05:10,667 --> 00:05:14,066 It is an objectively spooky place, and that's gonna make 104 00:05:14,233 --> 00:05:15,867 people's imaginations run wild. 105 00:05:16,033 --> 00:05:18,000 And like all old castles, there's gonna be creaks 106 00:05:18,166 --> 00:05:19,467 and groans and shadows, 107 00:05:19,633 --> 00:05:21,266 and that's what people are reporting. 108 00:05:21,433 --> 00:05:24,066 OK, so Phil's chalking it up to a creepy old building. 109 00:05:24,233 --> 00:05:27,066 -What about you? -I mean, I'm going Erasmus. 110 00:05:27,233 --> 00:05:29,600 This guy seems like one evil dude. 111 00:05:29,767 --> 00:05:31,767 He was trapped in a castle for a year while it was 112 00:05:31,767 --> 00:05:33,500 under siege, and then he died there. 113 00:05:33,667 --> 00:05:36,000 You couldn't get a better setup for a malevolent haunting. 114 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,467 All right, well, prove it. 115 00:05:37,467 --> 00:05:41,400 Head to Slovenia and find out if Predjama Castle really is 116 00:05:41,567 --> 00:05:43,767 under siege from the paranormal. 117 00:05:43,767 --> 00:05:45,867 -You got it, boss. -We're on it. 118 00:05:46,033 --> 00:05:48,767 [Josh] It's a 12-hour flight from New York to Ljubljana, 119 00:05:48,934 --> 00:05:52,600 Slovenia, a country nestled between Austria and Croatia 120 00:05:52,767 --> 00:05:53,900 in Eastern Europe. 121 00:05:54,066 --> 00:05:56,200 Then it's a scenic 45-minute drive 122 00:05:56,367 --> 00:05:58,000 to the town of Postojna, 123 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,700 where a winding mountain road leads to the towering cliffside 124 00:06:01,867 --> 00:06:03,066 of Predjama Castle. 125 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,300 Wow. Welcome to Slovenia. 126 00:06:10,467 --> 00:06:12,500 Gosh, it is stunning, isn't it? 127 00:06:12,667 --> 00:06:15,200 [Phil] So beautiful out here. 128 00:06:17,667 --> 00:06:20,400 You want to know what's super cool about Slovenia? 129 00:06:20,567 --> 00:06:23,767 There's a salamander here. It's called the olm. 130 00:06:23,934 --> 00:06:25,166 -Say it. -Olm. 131 00:06:25,166 --> 00:06:26,300 [Phil] It's kind of fun to say. 132 00:06:26,467 --> 00:06:28,700 And they live deep in the caves here. 133 00:06:28,867 --> 00:06:31,166 They're blind, they can live 100 years, 134 00:06:31,166 --> 00:06:32,867 and they sense electricity. 135 00:06:33,033 --> 00:06:34,467 They're one of the most incredible creatures 136 00:06:34,467 --> 00:06:35,567 on the planet. 137 00:06:35,734 --> 00:06:37,166 That's what you're most excited about in Slovenia? 138 00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:38,400 [Phil] Yes! 139 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:39,567 [Heather] All right, Salamander Boy, let's just go 140 00:06:39,734 --> 00:06:41,000 find our witnesses. -Fine. 141 00:06:41,166 --> 00:06:42,834 Let's make our way to the castle. 142 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:47,767 -Oh, my gosh, look. -Wow. 143 00:06:47,934 --> 00:06:50,467 -[Phil] Unreal. -[Heather] It's incredible. 144 00:06:50,467 --> 00:06:52,000 I see why they call it a cave castle. 145 00:06:52,166 --> 00:06:53,600 Yeah. 146 00:06:53,767 --> 00:06:54,767 Huge. 147 00:06:55,967 --> 00:06:57,166 [Phil] Those are our witnesses. 148 00:06:57,166 --> 00:06:58,467 [Heather] Yeah, I think you're right. 149 00:07:00,300 --> 00:07:02,000 [mysterious music plays] 150 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,100 -[Phil] Hi. -[Heather] Nice to meet you. 151 00:07:03,266 --> 00:07:04,367 -[Phil] Nice to meet you guys. -[Anja] Hi! 152 00:07:04,533 --> 00:07:05,867 [Phil] We're meeting with castle guides 153 00:07:05,867 --> 00:07:08,266 Anja Skarabot and Mateja Margon, 154 00:07:08,266 --> 00:07:11,000 who have firsthand stories of the strange activity 155 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000 reported within Predjama's looming walls. 156 00:07:14,166 --> 00:07:17,600 -Welcome to Predjama. -This is amazing. 157 00:07:17,767 --> 00:07:19,166 -[Heather] Incredible. -[Mateja] Yeah. 158 00:07:19,166 --> 00:07:21,567 And it's the biggest cave castle in the world. 159 00:07:21,734 --> 00:07:23,667 [Phil] So what era of history do you think stands out 160 00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:24,867 the most to you? 161 00:07:25,033 --> 00:07:27,066 [Mateja] Probably that was the 15th century, 162 00:07:27,233 --> 00:07:29,567 when Erasmus lived here. 163 00:07:29,567 --> 00:07:33,367 He burned houses down, took people to slavery, 164 00:07:33,367 --> 00:07:37,367 and so on, and he was killed during a siege here. 165 00:07:37,533 --> 00:07:39,767 We've heard some stories about how the siege ended, 166 00:07:39,934 --> 00:07:41,467 but what's the real story? 167 00:07:41,633 --> 00:07:44,767 Well, the real story is his servant betrayed him. 168 00:07:44,767 --> 00:07:47,567 The servant, he gave a signal with a small candle 169 00:07:47,567 --> 00:07:51,467 to the soldiers in front of the castle when Erasmus 170 00:07:51,467 --> 00:07:53,100 was using the toilet. 171 00:07:53,100 --> 00:07:56,266 They catapulted a big stone ball to that part of the castle 172 00:07:56,433 --> 00:07:59,200 of the castle, which collapsed and killed Erasmus. 173 00:07:59,367 --> 00:08:01,800 [Phil] Wow. That's how he went. 174 00:08:01,967 --> 00:08:04,266 -Pants down. -[both laugh] 175 00:08:04,433 --> 00:08:07,667 So, we understand people have some pretty intense, 176 00:08:07,834 --> 00:08:09,667 unexplainable experiences here. -[Anja] Yeah. 177 00:08:09,834 --> 00:08:13,700 Local people believe this place is haunted, and in general, 178 00:08:13,867 --> 00:08:16,467 they are afraid of being alone here, 179 00:08:16,467 --> 00:08:18,300 especially when it's dark. 180 00:08:19,367 --> 00:08:23,100 [Mateja] Up there, somebody saw the small candlelight moving 181 00:08:23,266 --> 00:08:26,166 from window to window. The castle was empty. 182 00:08:26,166 --> 00:08:27,867 Nobody was there. 183 00:08:28,033 --> 00:08:29,600 And he saw lights moving 184 00:08:29,767 --> 00:08:31,667 through the main part of the castle. 185 00:08:31,834 --> 00:08:33,200 [Heather] Huh. 186 00:08:33,367 --> 00:08:35,867 Didn't you say that Erasmus was killed because a servant 187 00:08:35,867 --> 00:08:37,166 put a light in the window? 188 00:08:37,166 --> 00:08:38,367 Yes. 189 00:08:40,567 --> 00:08:42,200 [Heather] And have y'all ever seen anything? 190 00:08:42,367 --> 00:08:44,000 We have some stories to tell, yes. 191 00:08:44,166 --> 00:08:46,100 -Let's hear them. -It was the evening. 192 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,800 I have to close the castle all alone inside. 193 00:08:50,967 --> 00:08:52,166 So, I lock the door. 194 00:08:52,166 --> 00:08:54,700 I'm 100% sure that nobody's there. 195 00:08:54,867 --> 00:08:56,066 -But... -[door creaks] 196 00:08:56,066 --> 00:08:59,667 [Mateja] I saw a shadow of a person going down the stairs 197 00:08:59,834 --> 00:09:01,567 on the second floor. 198 00:09:01,734 --> 00:09:03,467 I thought that it was a visitor, you know? 199 00:09:03,633 --> 00:09:05,200 He will be waiting for me at the exit. 200 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:08,800 But when I came down, nobody was there. 201 00:09:08,967 --> 00:09:11,200 The whole castle was empty. 202 00:09:11,367 --> 00:09:14,467 And I had an experience in the exact same place. 203 00:09:14,467 --> 00:09:15,600 And what was that? 204 00:09:15,767 --> 00:09:18,333 When I was closing the castle one evening... 205 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,567 And when I was at the central part of the castle, 206 00:09:23,567 --> 00:09:25,567 I heard children voices... 207 00:09:25,734 --> 00:09:27,367 [children chattering faintly] 208 00:09:27,533 --> 00:09:28,967 [Anja] ...talking with each other. 209 00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,100 They were coming from downstairs. 210 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:34,066 When I reached the exit, 211 00:09:35,367 --> 00:09:37,400 I saw that no one was there. 212 00:09:38,367 --> 00:09:40,500 So those voices happened in the exact same spot that 213 00:09:40,667 --> 00:09:42,500 you saw that shadow figure? -Yes. 214 00:09:44,667 --> 00:09:46,367 All right, we're about to head inside. 215 00:09:46,533 --> 00:09:49,600 -Any last minute advice? -[Mateja] Just be careful. 216 00:09:49,767 --> 00:09:51,500 There's a reason 217 00:09:51,667 --> 00:09:55,633 why nobody wants to be here alone, so good luck. 218 00:09:58,100 --> 00:10:00,266 [Phil] We get to work setting up security cameras 219 00:10:00,266 --> 00:10:02,367 in the castle's most active locations, 220 00:10:03,467 --> 00:10:06,100 starting with the cave entrances, where I think 221 00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:10,233 bat activity may help explain the strange noises people hear. 222 00:10:12,700 --> 00:10:16,166 We also place the camera in evil Lord Erasmus' bedroom, 223 00:10:16,166 --> 00:10:19,000 where a worker saw a light moving through the windows 224 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,166 after closing. 225 00:10:20,166 --> 00:10:22,100 -Look good in here? -[Heather] Perfect. 226 00:10:22,266 --> 00:10:26,266 [Phil] And the second floor stairwell, where Anja and Mateja 227 00:10:26,433 --> 00:10:28,200 reported a shadowy presence 228 00:10:28,367 --> 00:10:30,800 and the sound of unseen children. 229 00:10:30,967 --> 00:10:33,000 We decide to begin our investigation there. 230 00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:36,266 [ominous tone plays] 231 00:10:40,700 --> 00:10:43,700 OK, I want to get out the parabolic mic so I can 232 00:10:43,867 --> 00:10:46,200 record all the audio happening around here and figure out 233 00:10:46,367 --> 00:10:48,600 what direction it's coming from. -OK. 234 00:10:52,066 --> 00:10:53,200 [Phil] OK. 235 00:10:53,367 --> 00:10:56,567 This is where Anja said she heard children laughing. 236 00:10:56,567 --> 00:10:59,367 It's possible the noises she heard could be caused 237 00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:02,100 by bats flying around in here. 238 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,767 What else do you want to do to investigate this area? 239 00:11:04,767 --> 00:11:07,800 [Heather] Mateja said that she saw that shadow figure going 240 00:11:07,967 --> 00:11:09,567 down the stairs, right? 241 00:11:09,734 --> 00:11:11,200 I've got a footstep tracker. 242 00:11:11,367 --> 00:11:12,500 It works on vibrations. 243 00:11:12,667 --> 00:11:14,700 If anything takes a step near it, it's gonna go off 244 00:11:14,867 --> 00:11:16,600 and let us know something's around. 245 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,467 -OK, let's check it. -[knocking] 246 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:29,967 OK, so we're gonna leave this here all night. 247 00:11:30,133 --> 00:11:32,700 We've got our IR camera on it, so it will track and record 248 00:11:32,867 --> 00:11:34,967 if that thing goes off. -[Phil] OK. 249 00:11:35,133 --> 00:11:37,700 [Heather] All right, let me grab my XLS. 250 00:11:37,867 --> 00:11:38,967 OK... 251 00:11:42,767 --> 00:11:44,700 [Phil] All right, Heather. I'm recording. 252 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:48,066 [Heather] Are you hearing anything? 253 00:11:48,233 --> 00:11:50,467 Nothing. Just a lot of dripping water. 254 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,900 [Heather] Is there anyone here with us? 255 00:11:58,367 --> 00:11:59,467 Can you make a noise? 256 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,667 [rumbling faintly] 257 00:12:07,667 --> 00:12:09,767 I'm picking up some low rumblings from up there. 258 00:12:09,767 --> 00:12:11,367 -[Heather] Yeah. -You hear that, too? 259 00:12:11,533 --> 00:12:12,633 [Heather] Yeah. 260 00:12:13,867 --> 00:12:15,467 [Phil] That's the direction of the caves, yeah? 261 00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:23,367 [Heather] Why don't you walk up and down this stairwell to see if that 262 00:12:23,367 --> 00:12:25,367 can trigger some activity? -[Phil] OK. 263 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:32,000 [device beeping] 264 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,367 [Phil] Erasmus... 265 00:12:35,533 --> 00:12:40,100 Erasmus, if you do still live here, 266 00:12:40,266 --> 00:12:42,767 you can try and prove it to me. 267 00:12:42,767 --> 00:12:45,066 [device beeping] 268 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,367 -[heavy thud] -[Heather screams] 269 00:12:51,367 --> 00:12:52,767 [Phil] Oh, my God! 270 00:12:59,767 --> 00:13:01,000 [Heather] What the hell is that? 271 00:13:04,367 --> 00:13:05,467 It sounded like a door. 272 00:13:07,266 --> 00:13:08,867 Is it this? 273 00:13:08,867 --> 00:13:10,467 [high-pitched slam] 274 00:13:10,633 --> 00:13:12,867 [Phil] No, it's too much metal. Is it this door? 275 00:13:13,033 --> 00:13:14,767 Let's see. 276 00:13:14,767 --> 00:13:17,000 [muffled thuds] 277 00:13:17,166 --> 00:13:18,867 -It's latched. -[Phil] It's latched. 278 00:13:19,033 --> 00:13:20,400 [clicks open] [creaks] 279 00:13:20,567 --> 00:13:21,767 All right. 280 00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:24,266 -[heavy thud] -That was it. 281 00:13:24,433 --> 00:13:25,867 [Heather] That was it. That was it. 282 00:13:26,033 --> 00:13:27,767 [Phil grunts] 283 00:13:27,767 --> 00:13:29,767 [Phil] This is not easy to open and close. 284 00:13:29,934 --> 00:13:31,667 Let's see if it could have been a draft or anything. 285 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,000 [Phil] This window's open. 286 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,266 This is the only open window I've seen in the entire castle. 287 00:13:38,266 --> 00:13:40,500 Maybe a draft, but it is a pretty open area. 288 00:13:41,567 --> 00:13:44,967 That door's heavy. I don't know what caused that. 289 00:13:45,967 --> 00:13:47,600 [Heather] Whatever it was, it happened right after 290 00:13:47,767 --> 00:13:49,200 you were taunting Erasmus. 291 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,100 And that was a pretty violent answer. 292 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,800 So you think something knows we're here? 293 00:13:54,967 --> 00:13:56,066 Oh, yeah. 294 00:13:56,233 --> 00:13:57,867 Well, if you think the energy led you here, 295 00:13:58,033 --> 00:13:59,367 how about you stay in here? 296 00:13:59,533 --> 00:14:01,700 I'm gonna wander around the rest of the castle, 297 00:14:01,867 --> 00:14:05,200 because I still think I can find some explanation for some 298 00:14:05,367 --> 00:14:07,000 of the audio anomalies that are happening here. 299 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,000 -OK, stay on walkie. -[Phil] OK. 300 00:14:09,967 --> 00:14:13,066 [eerie music plays] 301 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:19,867 [soft footsteps] 302 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,000 You wanted me in here? 303 00:14:24,166 --> 00:14:26,266 I'm in here. 304 00:14:26,433 --> 00:14:27,967 I'm gonna use the Ovilus to try and communicate. 305 00:14:35,667 --> 00:14:36,867 Is there anyone here with me? 306 00:14:39,166 --> 00:14:40,900 I heard you just slam the door. 307 00:14:43,367 --> 00:14:44,467 Can you tell me your name? 308 00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,367 [entity speaking] 309 00:14:48,367 --> 00:14:49,600 [Heather] Sin? 310 00:14:49,767 --> 00:14:51,667 You committed sins? 311 00:14:51,834 --> 00:14:52,900 [entity speaking] 312 00:14:53,066 --> 00:14:54,567 [Heather] Lord? 313 00:14:54,567 --> 00:14:55,800 What did you do here? 314 00:14:58,266 --> 00:14:59,667 [entity speaking] 315 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,467 [Heather] You were a raider. 316 00:15:03,467 --> 00:15:05,266 Did you used to raid the villages? 317 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,266 I mean, I'm beginning to think it really could be 318 00:15:09,433 --> 00:15:11,734 Erasmus here with us. 319 00:15:14,166 --> 00:15:17,066 [Phil] With strange noises reported throughout the castle, 320 00:15:17,233 --> 00:15:18,900 I'm heading into the cave section to look 321 00:15:19,066 --> 00:15:20,667 for signs of life. 322 00:15:20,667 --> 00:15:24,266 Bats, birds, even wolves could potentially be behind 323 00:15:24,266 --> 00:15:26,600 the disembodied voices and footsteps 324 00:15:26,767 --> 00:15:28,000 people are hearing. 325 00:15:30,467 --> 00:15:33,867 Look how much this place opens up back here. 326 00:15:33,867 --> 00:15:37,700 This is an area of the castle that is not open to the public. 327 00:15:37,867 --> 00:15:39,467 You know what? I'm gonna get the Flir out. 328 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:44,667 [beeping] 329 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,934 OK. 330 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,100 Everything right now is showing up very blue because 331 00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:55,767 it's cold in here. 332 00:15:55,767 --> 00:15:57,734 Anything alive will pop. 333 00:16:00,266 --> 00:16:02,633 But so far, I'm not seeing anything. 334 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:09,100 [Heather] The Ovilus hits for, "Lord" and, "raid" seem to point to Erasmus, 335 00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:11,767 so I went to investigate what was once his bedroom, 336 00:16:11,934 --> 00:16:14,066 the same room where a worker saw a light 337 00:16:14,233 --> 00:16:16,066 moving past the windows. 338 00:16:16,233 --> 00:16:18,667 Inspired by this, I decided to use a candle 339 00:16:18,834 --> 00:16:21,100 as a trigger object in a call-and-response session. 340 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,867 [beeping] 341 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,233 Is there anyone here with us? 342 00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:35,800 You can make a noise. 343 00:16:37,667 --> 00:16:38,900 You can use this REM pod. 344 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,567 All you have to do to answer for "Yes..." 345 00:16:42,734 --> 00:16:44,934 -[device beeping] -...touch the antenna. 346 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,266 Are you the servant that betrayed Erasmus? 347 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,867 Is Erasmus in the room with us right now? 348 00:17:02,467 --> 00:17:05,266 Earlier, I got, "raid" on the Ovilus. 349 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:08,867 Did you raid the caravans? 350 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,800 [beeping] 351 00:17:14,867 --> 00:17:16,166 OK. 352 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,700 Did you murder a lot of people? 353 00:17:23,567 --> 00:17:25,100 [beeping] 354 00:17:31,066 --> 00:17:32,867 [Phil] Gotta be bats flying around here. 355 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:37,400 [crashing] 356 00:17:38,867 --> 00:17:40,367 Up there, up there! 357 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:44,567 [soft footsteps] 358 00:17:44,734 --> 00:17:46,700 Something is moving up here. 359 00:17:49,166 --> 00:17:51,400 [ominous tone plays] 360 00:17:55,767 --> 00:17:57,266 Oh, it goes way back there. 361 00:18:04,367 --> 00:18:07,266 Whoa! Oh, [bleep]! 362 00:18:07,433 --> 00:18:09,166 Huge heat signature. 363 00:18:09,333 --> 00:18:10,567 Right back there, right back there. 364 00:18:12,166 --> 00:18:13,266 What the hell is that? 365 00:18:18,066 --> 00:18:19,867 Heather, Heather, you there? 366 00:18:20,033 --> 00:18:21,400 Yeah, I copy. What's up? 367 00:18:21,567 --> 00:18:24,300 [Phil] I just got a major heat signature in the cave. 368 00:18:24,467 --> 00:18:26,200 There's something big moving around up here. 369 00:18:26,367 --> 00:18:27,667 -Get up here now! -[Heather] Copy that, yeah. 370 00:18:27,834 --> 00:18:28,800 On my way. 371 00:18:35,367 --> 00:18:38,000 -Phil? -[Phil] Up here, up here. 372 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,800 Check this out. 373 00:18:39,967 --> 00:18:43,300 It's right around this corner. Look at those stairs 374 00:18:43,467 --> 00:18:45,500 going up. 375 00:18:45,667 --> 00:18:48,300 These look much older than the other infraestructure 376 00:18:48,467 --> 00:18:49,467 in this cave. 377 00:18:50,967 --> 00:18:52,567 That's it on the thermal right now. 378 00:18:54,266 --> 00:18:57,467 So, based on where I was down there, whatever I saw was going 379 00:18:57,633 --> 00:18:59,266 up here 380 00:18:59,266 --> 00:19:00,500 to the left, that way. 381 00:19:02,367 --> 00:19:03,467 OK, here we go. 382 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,467 Oh, wow! 383 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,767 It either goes that way... 384 00:19:12,934 --> 00:19:15,166 or it goes up. 385 00:19:15,333 --> 00:19:16,800 Wow, it really goes up! 386 00:19:18,266 --> 00:19:20,000 [distant thud] 387 00:19:20,166 --> 00:19:23,467 -Did you hear that? -Ooh, OK, yeah. 388 00:19:23,633 --> 00:19:26,567 [Heather] It makes sense that activity would draw us up here. 389 00:19:26,734 --> 00:19:28,767 This has got to be a passage that Erasmus took 390 00:19:28,934 --> 00:19:31,100 out of the castle. -[Phil] It's got to be. 391 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,500 If we get to the top of this passage, I think we're going 392 00:19:34,667 --> 00:19:35,867 to find some answers. 393 00:19:36,033 --> 00:19:38,367 OK, let's follow his path to survival. 394 00:19:38,367 --> 00:19:39,700 See what we find up there. 395 00:19:44,467 --> 00:19:45,800 All right. 396 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,467 Ooh! 397 00:19:49,667 --> 00:19:51,367 This is one hell of a passage. 398 00:19:53,300 --> 00:19:54,567 [Heather] What's it look like up there? 399 00:19:54,734 --> 00:19:56,667 There's another chamber up here. 400 00:19:56,834 --> 00:19:58,166 And it keeps going up. 401 00:19:59,367 --> 00:20:01,567 Do you see any evidence of what we heard? 402 00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:03,066 [Phil] Nothing yet. 403 00:20:03,233 --> 00:20:04,367 [Heather] All right, here I come. 404 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:09,567 [Phil grunts] 405 00:20:09,567 --> 00:20:11,567 -[Phil] You good? -[Heather] Yeah. 406 00:20:12,567 --> 00:20:15,100 -Oh, that is a tiny passage. -[Phil] Yeah. 407 00:20:16,767 --> 00:20:20,100 Starting to see leaves, which tells me 408 00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:21,900 we might be close. 409 00:20:22,066 --> 00:20:23,967 [Philip grunts] [crashes] 410 00:20:24,133 --> 00:20:25,100 [Heather] Phil! 411 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,100 [mysterious music plays] 412 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:32,467 [Heather] Phil! 413 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,400 -Are you OK? -[Phil] Oh, yeah. 414 00:20:36,567 --> 00:20:38,367 I'm good. I'm good. 415 00:20:38,367 --> 00:20:39,967 [Heather sighs] 416 00:20:40,133 --> 00:20:42,900 [Phil] A lot of leaves. They're really slippery. 417 00:20:43,066 --> 00:20:44,467 Watch your step. 418 00:20:44,633 --> 00:20:46,066 OK. 419 00:20:46,233 --> 00:20:47,867 What do you see? 420 00:20:48,033 --> 00:20:51,667 -I think I see the sky. -[Heather] Thank God. 421 00:20:51,667 --> 00:20:53,967 [Phil grunts] 422 00:20:54,133 --> 00:20:55,467 [Phil] Whoo! 423 00:20:55,633 --> 00:20:57,767 -Oh, my God. -[Heather] You clear? 424 00:20:57,934 --> 00:20:59,767 Clear. 425 00:20:59,767 --> 00:21:01,700 This last part's pretty tricky. 426 00:21:01,867 --> 00:21:02,867 -[Heather] Yeah. -[Phil] Grab my wrist. 427 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,133 Oh, God. 428 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,266 Anything waiting for us up here? 429 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:14,500 I'm not seeing any movement. 430 00:21:15,667 --> 00:21:17,166 No, I don't hear anything either. 431 00:21:19,166 --> 00:21:21,367 The activities seem to draw us out of the castle 432 00:21:21,367 --> 00:21:23,100 and into those caves. 433 00:21:23,100 --> 00:21:25,100 I think if we want to understand Predjama Castle, 434 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,667 we have to learn more about those caves. 435 00:21:27,834 --> 00:21:29,967 -[Phil] OK, it is getting late. -Let's head back. 436 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:40,166 [Heather] Hoping to learn more about the cave system attached 437 00:21:40,333 --> 00:21:42,600 to Predjama, I set out the next morning to meet 438 00:21:42,767 --> 00:21:44,300 with an old friend. 439 00:21:44,467 --> 00:21:46,300 Marco, so good to see you again. 440 00:21:46,467 --> 00:21:48,000 Yes, indeed. 441 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,667 Marco Visconti, is an occult expert who helped us 442 00:21:50,834 --> 00:21:53,266 investigate France's Beast of Gévaudan. 443 00:21:54,567 --> 00:21:57,767 Help me understand what caves represented in traditional 444 00:21:57,767 --> 00:21:59,000 Slavic culture. 445 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,800 In Slavic folklore, caves are connected with a fundamental 446 00:22:03,967 --> 00:22:05,700 figure, the god Veles. 447 00:22:07,166 --> 00:22:10,300 He wasn't just like the god of the underworld. 448 00:22:10,467 --> 00:22:12,900 He was seen as the underworld itself. 449 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,300 [Heather] How would that manifest? 450 00:22:15,467 --> 00:22:18,166 Veles was represented as a dragon. 451 00:22:19,467 --> 00:22:22,100 In the caves, especially here in Predjama, we find 452 00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:25,467 this strange creature, the olm salamander. 453 00:22:25,467 --> 00:22:26,433 They exist only here. 454 00:22:26,433 --> 00:22:28,567 They don't exist anywhere else in the world. 455 00:22:28,567 --> 00:22:31,400 And the olm salamanders were seen as 456 00:22:31,567 --> 00:22:35,567 baby dragons, the offsprings, the physical manifestation 457 00:22:35,567 --> 00:22:37,867 of the dragon god Veles. 458 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,266 If we find these olm salamanders, then we're 459 00:22:43,266 --> 00:22:45,967 literally finding evidence of the god Veles? 460 00:22:46,133 --> 00:22:47,867 Old Slavic people would say yes. 461 00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:50,967 Remember, the dragons are seen across cultures as hoarders 462 00:22:51,133 --> 00:22:52,800 of wealth, the hoarders of secrets. 463 00:22:52,967 --> 00:22:56,600 And so, Veles wasn't just the god of the underworld. 464 00:22:56,767 --> 00:22:59,467 It was also the god of wealth. 465 00:22:59,633 --> 00:23:03,100 Do you think that someone that lived in the castle, 466 00:23:03,266 --> 00:23:06,266 say, Erasmus, would have tried to harness this power? 467 00:23:06,266 --> 00:23:08,400 I think the chances are pretty high. 468 00:23:08,567 --> 00:23:11,767 He would have used a magician, a shaman, to appease Veles 469 00:23:11,934 --> 00:23:14,000 and to build a relationship with him. 470 00:23:14,166 --> 00:23:15,867 Do you think that that would affect the activity 471 00:23:16,033 --> 00:23:17,300 that's happening today? 472 00:23:17,467 --> 00:23:18,800 [Marco] I have no doubts about it. 473 00:23:18,967 --> 00:23:21,867 Every time you conduct a magical ritual somewhere, 474 00:23:22,033 --> 00:23:23,467 you will leave an imprint. 475 00:23:23,467 --> 00:23:25,467 I think there's no doubt that there is a connection 476 00:23:25,633 --> 00:23:26,934 between the two. 477 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,667 [Phil] While Heather delves deeper into Slovenia's legends 478 00:23:30,834 --> 00:23:33,900 and lore, I head a few miles east to the entrance 479 00:23:34,066 --> 00:23:35,567 of Pivka Cave. 480 00:23:35,567 --> 00:23:38,000 Connected to Predjama's catacombs, I'm meeting 481 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,567 a witness who said she had a very strange experience here. 482 00:23:42,767 --> 00:23:46,000 Karin Kapelj is a local student who grew up exploring 483 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,100 the caves, but a recent experience left her terrified 484 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,200 to return until today. 485 00:23:51,367 --> 00:23:52,300 Walk me through it. 486 00:23:52,467 --> 00:23:54,900 What happened to you back there? 487 00:23:55,066 --> 00:23:57,200 Me and my friends were just scoping out the place. 488 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,266 I wandered off and I was lost all of a sudden 489 00:24:01,266 --> 00:24:02,867 and I was alone. 490 00:24:04,166 --> 00:24:06,667 I didn't know where I was at that point. 491 00:24:06,834 --> 00:24:08,367 [Phil] Please tell me you had a light at least. 492 00:24:08,533 --> 00:24:10,500 I did have a very small light. 493 00:24:10,667 --> 00:24:12,166 OK. 494 00:24:12,166 --> 00:24:15,867 As I was looking around, I saw a shadowy figure. 495 00:24:17,367 --> 00:24:21,867 I know it wasn't human by how it was moving, floating around. 496 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,800 First I saw just one, 497 00:24:24,967 --> 00:24:27,266 and then there was multiple of them. 498 00:24:28,166 --> 00:24:31,367 And I didn't just see them, I actually heard them. 499 00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,567 -What did you hear? -[Karin] Footsteps. 500 00:24:34,734 --> 00:24:35,700 They were like this. 501 00:24:36,667 --> 00:24:40,066 Not like a normal boot or a sneaker. 502 00:24:40,233 --> 00:24:41,967 It was somebody 503 00:24:42,133 --> 00:24:43,300 stomping. 504 00:24:44,567 --> 00:24:48,200 First it was one here and there, but then it was like 505 00:24:48,367 --> 00:24:51,300 multiple of them, and they were going faster. 506 00:24:51,467 --> 00:24:53,166 [Phil] Were they interacting with you? 507 00:24:53,166 --> 00:24:55,100 Do you think they were getting closer to you? 508 00:24:55,266 --> 00:24:57,100 It looked like they were taunting me. 509 00:24:58,166 --> 00:25:00,800 I was ignoring it. I was closing my eyes. 510 00:25:00,967 --> 00:25:03,400 And the more I was ignoring them, the more they wanted me 511 00:25:03,567 --> 00:25:07,600 to see them, to hear them. I was truly terrified. 512 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:11,500 But your friends were in the cave, 513 00:25:11,667 --> 00:25:13,066 potentially not too far away. 514 00:25:13,233 --> 00:25:15,300 Could it have been their footsteps that you were 515 00:25:15,467 --> 00:25:17,900 hearing just bouncing around the cave walls? 516 00:25:18,066 --> 00:25:19,900 When they found me, they told me they were 517 00:25:20,066 --> 00:25:22,500 searching for me for two hours. 518 00:25:22,667 --> 00:25:24,266 They were calling me the whole time. 519 00:25:24,433 --> 00:25:28,400 These shadows didn't make any sounds except these steps. 520 00:25:28,567 --> 00:25:31,166 When I finally heard my friends calling out my name, 521 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:33,500 I was 522 00:25:33,667 --> 00:25:35,100 so grateful. 523 00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:39,000 [Phil] What did you tell them? 524 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,166 I didn't tell them anything. 525 00:25:41,567 --> 00:25:42,800 Why didn't you tell anyone? 526 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,467 I didn't want them to think that I'm crazy or something. 527 00:25:46,467 --> 00:25:47,600 Hm. 528 00:25:47,767 --> 00:25:49,467 [Karin] I hope maybe... 529 00:25:49,467 --> 00:25:53,567 if somebody sees this and has a similar experience, 530 00:25:53,567 --> 00:25:56,767 because people don't talk about this here, I hope that somebody 531 00:25:56,767 --> 00:25:59,066 else can tell me that that happened to them, too. 532 00:26:01,367 --> 00:26:03,500 [Heather] Phil's meeting with a witness that had an experience 533 00:26:03,667 --> 00:26:04,800 inside Pivka Cave. 534 00:26:04,967 --> 00:26:06,400 Do you think that would be a good spot to get 535 00:26:06,567 --> 00:26:08,166 some answers? -Absolutely. 536 00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:12,500 The cave system is really, in my opinion, the nexus 537 00:26:12,667 --> 00:26:15,567 of power for all the paranormal activity in the area. 538 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,166 Whatever you were experiencing in the castle, it finds 539 00:26:20,333 --> 00:26:21,800 its source in the cave. 540 00:26:21,967 --> 00:26:25,100 There's a series of rituals that you can use to open 541 00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:27,867 yourself to communication with Veles. 542 00:26:28,033 --> 00:26:31,300 Once you've found the correct spot, there is this place 543 00:26:31,467 --> 00:26:34,600 inside Pivka Cave called "the Black Cave." 544 00:26:34,767 --> 00:26:36,867 -[Heather] Black Cave? -Yes. 545 00:26:36,867 --> 00:26:40,800 That area was used as a ritual site. 546 00:26:40,967 --> 00:26:44,900 So what's the most effective way to communicate with Veles? 547 00:26:45,066 --> 00:26:47,266 I would conduct a little ritual of appeasement. 548 00:26:47,433 --> 00:26:50,600 When you go there, you will see two places pillars that create 549 00:26:50,767 --> 00:26:52,967 what seems like an entrance. 550 00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:56,767 That would be the place where I would conduct this ritual 551 00:26:56,767 --> 00:26:58,400 and try to connect with them. 552 00:26:58,567 --> 00:27:00,300 Marco, thank you so much for meeting with me again. 553 00:27:00,467 --> 00:27:02,133 Thank you. It's been a pleasure. 554 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,767 [Heather] The Black Cave lies four miles east of Predjama, 555 00:27:07,767 --> 00:27:10,600 and according to Marco, it could be what's channeling 556 00:27:10,767 --> 00:27:13,567 Veles' energy to the castle through its connected 557 00:27:13,734 --> 00:27:15,367 subterranean caverns. 558 00:27:15,533 --> 00:27:18,000 To find out, Phil and I will follow the underground 559 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,667 Pivka River until the walls turn black, coated in soot 560 00:27:21,667 --> 00:27:24,300 from the fires of ancient rituals. 561 00:27:24,467 --> 00:27:27,100 Unfortunately for Phil, that means he's gonna be 562 00:27:27,266 --> 00:27:30,100 lugging our inflatable raft until we find the river. 563 00:27:30,266 --> 00:27:33,266 [Phil] And the boat! All right, let's go. 564 00:27:38,567 --> 00:27:41,100 [ominous tone plays] 565 00:27:43,066 --> 00:27:44,467 [Heather] Stunning! 566 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,400 Wow! 567 00:27:48,767 --> 00:27:51,667 [Phil] These must have taken millions of years to form. 568 00:27:53,667 --> 00:27:54,767 Wow! 569 00:27:55,767 --> 00:27:56,967 [Heather] Oh, my God! 570 00:27:57,133 --> 00:27:58,700 [Phil] Look at the size of this cavern! 571 00:27:59,867 --> 00:28:02,000 And we have stalagmites right overhead. 572 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,667 [Heather] Yeah, major formations. 573 00:28:03,834 --> 00:28:05,567 [Phil] And you hear what I'm hearing? 574 00:28:05,734 --> 00:28:06,734 [Heather] River! 575 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,100 [Phil] So this is the river that carved out 576 00:28:11,266 --> 00:28:12,467 this entire cave system. 577 00:28:12,633 --> 00:28:14,667 But, hey, we got to make sure we're in the right spot. 578 00:28:14,834 --> 00:28:16,266 We have to find those olms. 579 00:28:16,433 --> 00:28:17,567 Yeah, find the baby dragons, 580 00:28:17,734 --> 00:28:18,967 and we're hot on the trail of Veles. 581 00:28:19,133 --> 00:28:20,500 [Phil] All right, let's do this. 582 00:28:22,967 --> 00:28:25,967 So, look for something white about a foot long. 583 00:28:26,133 --> 00:28:27,100 [Heather] OK. 584 00:28:29,567 --> 00:28:31,567 [Phil] Wait, right there. Look! 585 00:28:31,734 --> 00:28:33,767 -There it is! -[Heather] Oh, wow! 586 00:28:33,767 --> 00:28:34,900 [Phil] We found one! 587 00:28:35,066 --> 00:28:36,700 That is my first baby dragon I've ever seen. 588 00:28:36,867 --> 00:28:39,967 -[Heather] Mine too. -[Phil] Absolutely incredible! 589 00:28:40,133 --> 00:28:43,800 I love how the geology and the biology has shaped 590 00:28:43,967 --> 00:28:45,600 the culture of this entire country. 591 00:28:45,767 --> 00:28:47,200 [Heather] Yeah, it's all tied together. 592 00:28:47,367 --> 00:28:48,767 Baby dragon marks the spot. 593 00:28:48,767 --> 00:28:50,300 That means Black Cave must be this way. 594 00:28:50,467 --> 00:28:52,066 OK, let's put that boat together. 595 00:28:52,233 --> 00:28:53,300 OK. 596 00:28:55,767 --> 00:28:57,734 [pump blowing] 597 00:29:00,266 --> 00:29:02,900 [ominous music plays] 598 00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:10,500 [Phil] Here we go. 599 00:29:12,967 --> 00:29:14,367 [Heather] Next stop, Black Cave. 600 00:29:17,667 --> 00:29:20,333 [water sloshing softly] 601 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,100 [Phil] Wow! 602 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,867 [gushing rises] 603 00:29:27,867 --> 00:29:29,900 You hearing that? 604 00:29:30,066 --> 00:29:31,066 It sounds loud. 605 00:29:33,066 --> 00:29:34,367 [Phil] It is getting louder. 606 00:29:35,567 --> 00:29:37,467 Are those rapids. 607 00:29:37,633 --> 00:29:38,600 Oh my god, they are. 608 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,367 -We gotta go for it. -OK, let's go for it. 609 00:29:42,533 --> 00:29:44,367 All right. Here we go! 610 00:29:45,567 --> 00:29:46,800 [Heather] Easy. 611 00:29:48,166 --> 00:29:49,266 Easy. 612 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,667 -[Phil] Go, go, go, push. -[Heather grunts] 613 00:29:52,834 --> 00:29:54,166 [Phil] Push, push! 614 00:29:54,166 --> 00:29:55,767 [Heather] Left, left. Rock ahead. 615 00:29:57,166 --> 00:29:58,767 -[Phil] Go, go, go, go! -[Heather] Push, push, push! 616 00:29:58,934 --> 00:30:00,000 Left, left, left! 617 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,600 Watch it! Watch it! Watch it! 618 00:30:03,867 --> 00:30:06,000 [mysterious music plays] 619 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,767 [Heather] Left, left, left! 620 00:30:07,934 --> 00:30:10,700 [Heather and Phil groaning] 621 00:30:10,867 --> 00:30:12,166 [Phil] You good? 622 00:30:13,166 --> 00:30:14,400 [Heather] Let's take a break. 623 00:30:14,567 --> 00:30:15,667 [Phil] See a sport for us to land? 624 00:30:15,834 --> 00:30:18,300 [Heather] I think right here, up on the right. 625 00:30:18,467 --> 00:30:21,467 [Heather and Phil grunting] 626 00:30:22,567 --> 00:30:24,200 [Phil] OK. We're good! 627 00:30:24,367 --> 00:30:25,500 [Heather sighs] 628 00:30:27,066 --> 00:30:29,667 -You see what I'm seeing? -Ha! Black rock. 629 00:30:29,667 --> 00:30:32,867 [Phil] Yes. This must be it. 630 00:30:34,367 --> 00:30:35,900 -Let's go. -[Heather] All right. 631 00:30:36,867 --> 00:30:38,567 -Thanks. -[Phil] All right, let's do this. 632 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,667 [Phil] Jeez, look at these formations. 633 00:30:42,834 --> 00:30:44,400 Incredible! 634 00:30:46,867 --> 00:30:48,000 [Heather] Oh, look! 635 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,500 Marco said there'd be two columns. 636 00:30:49,667 --> 00:30:51,567 -[Phil] There's got to be them. -[Heather] Let's get up there. 637 00:30:51,567 --> 00:30:52,867 [Phil] Yeah, let's do it. 638 00:30:55,567 --> 00:30:56,834 Wow. 639 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,767 I can't even begin to guess how old these columns must be. 640 00:31:01,767 --> 00:31:03,900 Unbelievable. 641 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:06,867 Wow! 642 00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:09,266 Heather, get over here. Look at this. 643 00:31:10,367 --> 00:31:13,266 -Is that what I think it is? -[Heather] Oh, wow. 644 00:31:13,433 --> 00:31:15,000 -That's charred wood. -Yes! 645 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:17,767 [Phil] Unreal. 646 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,967 I mean, think of how far back we are in this game. 647 00:31:22,133 --> 00:31:23,967 No one would come back here just to light a little 648 00:31:24,133 --> 00:31:28,100 campfire, like the only reason why we would find charred wood 649 00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:31,166 here is because this is the place where people 650 00:31:31,166 --> 00:31:32,367 did rituals. 651 00:31:32,533 --> 00:31:35,000 Yeah, if people were coming here for hundreds of years 652 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,767 and doing rituals, that will leave an imprint on this space. 653 00:31:38,767 --> 00:31:41,667 Well, it certainly left a visual imprint. 654 00:31:41,834 --> 00:31:43,900 -We'll see about the other. -[Heather] I've got an idea. 655 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,500 If this chamber really is where shamans of the past 656 00:31:48,667 --> 00:31:50,800 communicated with Veles, we could be standing 657 00:31:50,967 --> 00:31:53,300 in the source of all the paranormal activity 658 00:31:53,467 --> 00:31:55,100 affecting Predjama Castle. 659 00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:57,867 Whether or not Veles exists, they clearly summoned 660 00:31:58,033 --> 00:31:59,667 some kind of energy here. 661 00:31:59,834 --> 00:32:03,467 So I want to try to do the same with the ritual Marco gave me. 662 00:32:03,633 --> 00:32:05,200 [Phil] OK, so I see lights. 663 00:32:05,367 --> 00:32:07,967 Right, because it's incredibly important to bring light back 664 00:32:08,133 --> 00:32:10,567 into the cave for Veles. -The dragon? 665 00:32:10,567 --> 00:32:13,200 -[Heather] Focus object. -[Phil] And what's in that? 666 00:32:13,367 --> 00:32:15,000 [Heather] Coins. It's an offering. 667 00:32:15,166 --> 00:32:17,166 Not only is Veles the god of the underworld, but he's also 668 00:32:17,333 --> 00:32:18,567 the god of wealth. 669 00:32:18,567 --> 00:32:21,467 And we all know that Erasmus was greedy, so this could 670 00:32:21,467 --> 00:32:23,700 trigger him as well. -[Phil] OK. 671 00:32:23,867 --> 00:32:27,066 [Heather] To try to open communication with Veles, I read an old 672 00:32:27,233 --> 00:32:28,867 Slavic incantation. 673 00:32:28,867 --> 00:32:31,600 Phil arranges four lights in the cardinal directions 674 00:32:31,767 --> 00:32:35,900 and will turn on each one as I call out to the ancient god. 675 00:32:36,066 --> 00:32:37,900 -You ready? -Ready. 676 00:32:38,066 --> 00:32:39,066 [Heather] OK. 677 00:32:40,467 --> 00:32:42,700 "I seek the one who dwells below. 678 00:32:45,567 --> 00:32:47,166 "Veles, 679 00:32:47,166 --> 00:32:50,867 "great serpent of the deep, guardian of the dead, 680 00:32:51,033 --> 00:32:55,200 "come forth from the deep root, uncoil your wisdom. 681 00:32:55,367 --> 00:32:56,967 "Let your breath pass through me. 682 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,266 I offer wealth that you may grant your presence here." 683 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,767 [clinking] 684 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:15,667 Hopefully, now the communication is open. 685 00:33:15,834 --> 00:33:17,567 We're going to do the Estes Method. 686 00:33:17,734 --> 00:33:19,900 I'm going to put myself in a state of sensory deprivation 687 00:33:20,066 --> 00:33:21,867 to see if Veles can use me as an instrument 688 00:33:21,867 --> 00:33:23,367 for communication. 689 00:33:23,533 --> 00:33:26,166 So, any word that pops into my head, any image, I'm just gonna 690 00:33:26,166 --> 00:33:28,767 speak it out loud and see if it connects with your questions. 691 00:33:28,934 --> 00:33:30,767 I'm gonna set this recorder down just in case we get 692 00:33:30,934 --> 00:33:31,867 any EVPs. 693 00:33:33,166 --> 00:33:34,600 [suspenseful music builds] 694 00:33:34,767 --> 00:33:36,367 OK. 695 00:33:36,367 --> 00:33:38,567 These are noise-canceling and we'll play white noise, 696 00:33:38,567 --> 00:33:40,367 so I'll be able to hear absolutely nothing. 697 00:33:40,533 --> 00:33:42,166 [Phil] OK. 698 00:33:42,166 --> 00:33:45,300 [suspenseful music plays] 699 00:33:52,467 --> 00:33:54,166 [exhales] 700 00:33:55,467 --> 00:33:57,000 [Phil] Hello. 701 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:58,300 Heather. 702 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,300 She can't hear anything. She can't see anything. 703 00:34:02,467 --> 00:34:03,467 I'm going to begin. 704 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:06,667 Is Veles here right now? 705 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,467 How is the activity at Predjama Castle connected 706 00:34:16,467 --> 00:34:17,567 to the activity done here? 707 00:34:20,667 --> 00:34:22,100 Money. 708 00:34:22,266 --> 00:34:23,467 Money. 709 00:34:23,633 --> 00:34:24,567 Offering. 710 00:34:25,467 --> 00:34:27,400 So it was money that they offered Veles. 711 00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:33,266 -Fire. -[Phil] Money and fire. 712 00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:38,367 What happened in Predjama Castle? 713 00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:44,433 -Pain. -Pain. 714 00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:48,000 War. 715 00:34:49,867 --> 00:34:50,967 [Phil] So there was war. 716 00:34:52,767 --> 00:34:54,600 Are you the one that slammed the door last night? 717 00:34:54,767 --> 00:34:58,066 -Me. -You scared us pretty good. 718 00:34:58,233 --> 00:34:59,500 Did you like that? 719 00:35:03,066 --> 00:35:04,166 [Heather] Yes. 720 00:35:05,667 --> 00:35:07,767 So you like scaring people. 721 00:35:07,934 --> 00:35:10,166 Why? 722 00:35:10,166 --> 00:35:13,266 -Anger. -[Phil] Anger. 723 00:35:13,266 --> 00:35:14,367 OK. 724 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,100 What are you angry about? 725 00:35:19,567 --> 00:35:20,767 [Heather] Dead. 726 00:35:22,567 --> 00:35:25,100 Someone is angry that they are dead? 727 00:35:25,266 --> 00:35:26,867 Yes. 728 00:35:26,867 --> 00:35:28,567 [Phil] That is crazy. 729 00:35:32,667 --> 00:35:37,100 500 years after evil Lord Erasmus used the Postojna Caves 730 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,367 to resist the siege, the caves would be weaponized 731 00:35:40,533 --> 00:35:43,567 once more, this time against the Nazis. 732 00:35:43,567 --> 00:35:47,867 April 24, 1944, the occupying German forces 733 00:35:47,867 --> 00:35:51,700 have concealed a vital fuel depot deep within the caves, 734 00:35:51,867 --> 00:35:55,166 protecting it from Allied bombers, but not from brave 735 00:35:55,333 --> 00:35:56,767 resistance fighters. 736 00:35:56,767 --> 00:36:01,367 Led by 22-year-old Tadeusz Sadowski, a band of saboteurs 737 00:36:01,533 --> 00:36:04,266 from the local Vojko Brigade uses their deep knowledge 738 00:36:04,433 --> 00:36:08,166 of the caves to infiltrate the depot undetected. 739 00:36:08,333 --> 00:36:12,100 They then set charges and sneak out just in time to make 740 00:36:12,100 --> 00:36:15,500 1,200 barrels of fuel go boom! 741 00:36:15,667 --> 00:36:18,266 The resulting inferno rages for a week, 742 00:36:18,266 --> 00:36:20,667 crippling the Nazi supply lines. 743 00:36:20,667 --> 00:36:24,200 Today, soot-stained and a commemorative plaque mark 744 00:36:24,367 --> 00:36:28,767 this audacious act of resistance in the caves of Predjama Castle. 745 00:36:32,367 --> 00:36:34,800 [mysterious music plays] 746 00:36:34,967 --> 00:36:36,266 [Phil] So... 747 00:36:36,433 --> 00:36:37,867 acknowledging you're dead, 748 00:36:38,033 --> 00:36:39,700 and that's what you're angry about? 749 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:42,767 Were you killed at Predjama Castle? 750 00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:48,066 Erasmus? 751 00:36:48,233 --> 00:36:49,500 Let's say this is you. 752 00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:51,800 Could you tell us more? 753 00:36:54,667 --> 00:36:55,767 [Heather] Freedom. 754 00:36:56,667 --> 00:36:59,767 [Phil] You were trapped in that castle, 755 00:36:59,934 --> 00:37:02,900 surrounded for a year. We went through a passage. 756 00:37:03,066 --> 00:37:04,300 Was that your way to freedom? 757 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,767 What did you hope to gain 758 00:37:10,867 --> 00:37:12,667 by sending a shaman here? -Power. 759 00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:17,867 Ooh! 760 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,700 So, there are bats in here. 761 00:37:23,467 --> 00:37:24,967 Gone. 762 00:37:26,467 --> 00:37:28,266 [mysterious exhalation] 763 00:37:31,467 --> 00:37:33,867 [Phil] What the [bleep] was that? 764 00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:38,767 It sounded like a breath. 765 00:37:38,934 --> 00:37:40,667 [Heather exhales] 766 00:37:41,567 --> 00:37:43,367 That is crazy. 767 00:37:43,533 --> 00:37:45,700 It just sounded like there was a breath. 768 00:37:45,867 --> 00:37:48,166 Moments later, she just did a big exhale. 769 00:37:50,867 --> 00:37:52,100 What? 770 00:37:53,467 --> 00:37:55,200 -Did you just tap me? -[Phil] No! 771 00:37:55,367 --> 00:37:57,400 -I didn't tap you. -You didn't just tap me. 772 00:37:57,567 --> 00:37:58,800 [Phil] No. 773 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,800 [Heather] It felt like you were trying to get my attention. 774 00:38:00,967 --> 00:38:02,300 -[Phil] What? -Yes! 775 00:38:03,567 --> 00:38:08,100 I just heard what sounded like a breath coming from the cave, 776 00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:10,467 a second later, you let out a big... 777 00:38:10,467 --> 00:38:11,967 [exhales sharply] 778 00:38:12,133 --> 00:38:13,567 ...exhale. -That's weird. 779 00:38:13,567 --> 00:38:15,467 [Phil] Yes! 780 00:38:15,467 --> 00:38:18,367 -So you couldn't hear me at all? -[Heather] No. 781 00:38:18,367 --> 00:38:22,100 [Phil] It was oddly specific. 782 00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:25,567 Literally, you said, "Erasmus sent someone here 783 00:38:25,734 --> 00:38:27,967 for power." -[Heather] No way, really? 784 00:38:28,133 --> 00:38:30,166 [Phil] And I said, "OK, what did you leave here?" 785 00:38:30,333 --> 00:38:32,900 -And then you said, "Fire." -That's so creepy. 786 00:38:33,066 --> 00:38:35,000 It was almost as if I was talking to Erasmus. 787 00:38:36,367 --> 00:38:37,600 That's incredible. 788 00:38:37,767 --> 00:38:39,300 I mean, it was just words popping into my head and 789 00:38:39,467 --> 00:38:41,600 I was just saying them. -[Phil] Wow. 790 00:38:41,767 --> 00:38:43,900 And hey, we've got this recording of everything. 791 00:38:44,066 --> 00:38:45,567 We've already gotten some answers. 792 00:38:45,567 --> 00:38:46,934 I think this will hold more. 793 00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,166 [Josh] Were Phil and Heather really in contact with the spirit 794 00:38:51,166 --> 00:38:52,567 of evil Lord Erasmus? 795 00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:56,400 I gave what I can to the dragon of stone water, 796 00:38:56,567 --> 00:38:58,500 and I inscribe that the gates remain open. 797 00:38:58,667 --> 00:39:00,467 May they arise renewed. 798 00:39:00,467 --> 00:39:02,100 [Phil] Done. 799 00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:04,667 [Josh] After Heather closed the ritual, the team left 800 00:39:04,667 --> 00:39:08,467 the confines of the Black Cave behind to begin reviewing 801 00:39:08,467 --> 00:39:11,300 the mountain of evidence they collected at the castle. 802 00:39:13,767 --> 00:39:15,900 While Heather was doing a call-and-response 803 00:39:16,066 --> 00:39:18,000 in the third-floor bedroom... 804 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,266 Did you murder a lot of people? 805 00:39:20,266 --> 00:39:22,100 [Josh] She got a positive REM pod hit 806 00:39:22,266 --> 00:39:23,867 when she mentioned "murder." 807 00:39:24,033 --> 00:39:25,567 [device beeping] 808 00:39:25,734 --> 00:39:27,000 Yeah. 809 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,967 [Josh] But there was something else shocking 810 00:39:29,133 --> 00:39:30,467 she didn't realize. 811 00:39:30,633 --> 00:39:33,567 At that exact moment on the second-floor stairs, 812 00:39:33,567 --> 00:39:35,700 the footstep tracker was going off. 813 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:41,200 Heather wonders whether she was communicating with Erasmus 814 00:39:41,367 --> 00:39:44,367 or perhaps the servant who betrayed him and then fled 815 00:39:44,533 --> 00:39:45,500 the scene of the crime. 816 00:39:46,667 --> 00:39:48,967 But Phil also heard and saw evidence 817 00:39:49,133 --> 00:39:51,467 that he found very telling. 818 00:39:51,467 --> 00:39:53,000 A bunch of bats. 819 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,166 [Phil] Ooh! 820 00:39:54,166 --> 00:39:57,266 He believes the large amount of bat activity we captured 821 00:39:57,266 --> 00:40:00,700 throughout Predjama can explain the reports of so-called 822 00:40:00,867 --> 00:40:03,700 "children's laughter" and strange ghostly voices 823 00:40:03,867 --> 00:40:05,100 that are regularly reported. 824 00:40:05,266 --> 00:40:06,300 [ghostly child screams] 825 00:40:06,467 --> 00:40:07,600 -[Josh] In reply... -[door slams] 826 00:40:07,767 --> 00:40:09,066 -That was it. -[Heather] That was it. 827 00:40:09,233 --> 00:40:11,467 [Josh]...Heather points out, no bat has the strength 828 00:40:11,633 --> 00:40:13,500 to slam a door. 829 00:40:13,667 --> 00:40:15,867 The most astonishing evidence, though, would come not 830 00:40:15,867 --> 00:40:17,767 from the castle, but from the massive 831 00:40:17,767 --> 00:40:19,400 cave system its connected to. 832 00:40:19,567 --> 00:40:20,967 [Heather] Veles. 833 00:40:20,967 --> 00:40:24,700 [Josh] During Heather's incantation, to Veles, she spoke the phrase, 834 00:40:24,867 --> 00:40:26,800 "Let your breath pass through me." 835 00:40:26,967 --> 00:40:28,567 Let your breath pass through me. 836 00:40:31,567 --> 00:40:33,600 [mysterious exhalation] 837 00:40:33,767 --> 00:40:35,266 [Heather exhales] 838 00:40:35,266 --> 00:40:36,700 [Phil] What the [bleep] was that? 839 00:40:36,867 --> 00:40:40,100 [Josh] Which seemed to then literally happen after Phil heard 840 00:40:40,266 --> 00:40:43,300 a disembodied breath somewhere in the chamber. 841 00:40:43,467 --> 00:40:47,100 With Heather as a conduit, was Phil somehow communicating 842 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:51,000 with the god Veles, or was it instead with Predjama's 843 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,567 notorious Lord Erasmus? 844 00:40:53,734 --> 00:40:56,800 Heather reviewed the audio recording of her Estes session 845 00:40:56,967 --> 00:40:58,767 and believes she found the answer. 846 00:41:00,100 --> 00:41:02,166 [gnarled mumbling] 847 00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,533 [Josh] She identifies the word "izdal..." 848 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:09,967 [Josh] ...Slovenian for "betrayed." 849 00:41:11,467 --> 00:41:14,700 After the siege and betrayal that led to his violent death, 850 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,100 is Erasmus still unwilling to give up his castle 851 00:41:19,266 --> 00:41:21,100 more than 700 years later? 852 00:41:22,166 --> 00:41:25,567 Heather is convinced the evil Lord still spectrally sits 853 00:41:25,567 --> 00:41:29,000 on the ominous throne of Predjama Castle.